Frustrations with Atlanta
I was having a conversation with a stranger at my favorite coffee shop the other day. He said his friend just moved to New York City and his trying to convince him to move in with her. I’ve heard this story before, many times before and I’ve heard it an overwhelming amount of times here in Atlanta. So I asked the guy “What is Atlanta’s obsession with New York City? For real, it seems like everyone I meet has their New York story, which is consist of them spending a day in Manhattan. But no one who works in Manhattan lives in Manhattan. That said, I can’t help but think a move like that is incredibly naive. if you are not careful, you are gonna end up in the Bronx!” He responded with “Maybe. I feel like Atlanta is the New York City of the south.”
I find this interesting, because when I first arrived here I was told Atlanta is the Hollywood of the south. After the my new friend gathered his things and left the coffee shop, I picked up “The Creative Loafing” and read the head liner “Is Atlanta the next Amsterdam?”
It’s obvious to me that the only thing worth comparing Atlanta too is a teenager who needs to buy a completely different wardrobe every week. Atlanta, before you claim to be any of these cities, you have to behave like a city. You can start by fixing MARTA, because it shouldn’t take me 2 hours to go 6 miles. You really think a New Yorker would put up with that?
Comments
I always bristle when people make such large claims about cities, as though an entire population and its culture could be defined by a few sweeping generalizations made from only the most casual observation. And I myself am guilty of this. I fucking hate being in New York because of my experiences in a small businessy area of Manhattan. I love Philadelphia because of sandwiches and its dirty, grimey aesthetic. I’ll always have soft spot in my heart for Paris because of one night spent in a hostel listening to a party across the alleyway.
But at the same time, I understand that these impressions of mine don’t in any way define these cities and I don’t claim to know any of them. How can you without having spent years and years in one, sampling its various cultures and neighborhoods.
I think what’s interesting about these Atlanta generalizations are the underlying assertions. Sometimes they’re obvious. Asking if Atlanta is the next Amsterdamn is clearly going to lead to a conversation about drug culture. What your’e really asking is if Atlanta is going to go bohemian. But when your coffee shop friend says that Atlanta is the next New York, there’s no way to tell what he’s actually saying without first understanding what New York is to him. If I were to say that, I’d be claiming that Atlanta is fully of self-important fuckheads who think their very presence within the city’s esteemed borders somehow qualifies them as members of a some awesome club that only the awesomest most special people in the world can join. But him? Who knows. Maybe his whole impression of New York is based on Beastie Boys songs, or Seinfeld episodes? Maybe he meant that Atlanta’s the Heimietown of the South (and isn’t Jesse Jackson from Atlanta??)1. Either way, maybe we can stop this sort of behavior just by asking people what they mean when they say something so vague and nondescript. Or we can just not even worry about it cause no one every has anything of value to say anyway.
1. Nope. South Carolina. Close enough..
I love Atlanta, I lived the for three years and its great place. New york seems like a bit pretentious and dirty (Ive only been twice) Atlanta is quite nice. Its got good culture, good food, lots of trees, and decent jobs.
On a side note I would just like to mention Nashville (The city of my childhood) is a shithole. I don’t recommend it to anyone.
I would also like to apologize for any poor grammar as it is 9am and I am still drunk from last night.
“no one who works in Manhattan lives in Manhattan”
That may be one of the most ridiculous statements ever made on the Scrabbled.
That being said, I’ve spent enough time in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, and Los Angeles to form fairly well rounded impressions on those cities and I still probably haven’t even scratched the surface of them (except Philly and New York). But other than people not even beginning to be able to comprehend the costs involved in doing anything in New York City, it is very easy to project one’s city on to New York because other than the sprawl and sun of Los Angeles anything any other city has, New York has it as well and probably better (and I say this not as someone who lives there so I’m not a member of an awesome club). The dirt and dinge of Philly. The culture and history of a Boston or DC. The food and shopping of a Chicago. The music scenes….the art, the museums. But more of all of those things. I love all of those other cities I mentioned (especially Philly which is the city I’ve spent probably almost as much time in as New York) but nothing that any of them have is even a fraction of what New York has. I’ve never been to Atlanta so I can’t really say what they have or what their claim to fame is as a city, but I’m sure New York has it. And unlike most other cities it has a ridiculous public transportation system that makes it easy to get anywhere in said city.
But as I mentioned with the cost, living in New York city is easy. Affording New York city is not. The reason people put up with living in hovel apartments, or living with a 5 other people in a cramped space is because you don’t ever actually have to be in the place where you live.
Also, I’ve always felt that the standard for me being able to say that I “know” a city is being able to drop down (figuratively speaking) in that city and find my way around easily and to get to and engage in any number of locations and activities without having to ask around for recommendations or directions. That’s the standard I used for the 4 or 5 I mentioned above (I might be able to do that in Boston and DC as well, but probably not nearly with the ease I can NY, PH, CH and LA).
I’ve never been to Atlanta, so based on nothing, I think it’s because Atlanta is the biggest city in the south and yet has no claims to fame. And because the south < everywhere else.
Atlanta is big but by no means the biggest. Once again its just an old saying. Its a lovely city, unlike Nashville which happens to be a shithole.
Steve, I couldn’t agree with you more. Atlanta is so peaceful! My house is so cozy and I am surrounded by beautiful greenery all the time. I have yet to go to Nashville, but I hear its got a great music scene, and by that I mean real country, not that Kenny Chesney crap.
Kevin, I never said living in New York City wasn’t easy. I was talking specifically about Manhattan. I don’t know why you think its silly to claim no one working in Manhattan lives in Manhattan, cause its totally true. Perhaps my statement it a bit general but it’s a fair assessment. My point is, and much like John is saying, it is silly to explore one part of a big city and think that it defines the whole city. It would be like walking around Old City for a day and saying “Philly is lovely, I’d love to live there!” Manhattan is the nicest, most expensive, heavily populated, and touristy part of New York, and unless you come with money, your going to have a tough time making ends meet there.
But without getting into my feelings about New York, I’m just curious to know why Atlanta is trying to be other cities. It’s as if Atlanta is a city in puberty, it doesn’t know who it’s suppose to be. Perhaps its because Atlanta is on its way to becoming a BIG city, and it’s being hold back by the slow, racist, southern mind set. Alls I can say is, good luck Atlanta, it’s been real.
brittany said:I don’t know why you think its silly to claim no one working in Manhattan lives in Manhattan, cause its totally true. Perhaps my statement it a bit general but it’s a fair assessment.
It’s not true or fair. At all. Speaking just as someone who occasionally has to go work in New York, in both offices I’ve worked in I can count the Bridge-and-Tunnel crowd on one hand. Everyone else works within blocks of the offices — not even neighboring boroughs. Haven’t you noticed the slew of apartment buildings there? People live in them. And they generally work nearby.
My point about people working in New York not living in New York is…..where do you think the millions of people who live in New York work? Very few people pay those rents and commute OUT of the city. Yes, there are a lot of commuters from outside the city whow ork there. That is probably exactly the same in every single city in the country. New York is no exception. But it’s not even in the galaxy of accurate to say that nobody who works in New York lives there. A lot of people share apartments, and a lot of people may live in different, less expensive parts of New York city. But I’d venture to say well more than half of the people who work in New York City live in some part of New York city. Of course keep in mind that most of the time when someone says “New York City” they also mean Harlem, Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Queens as well as just Manhattan proper. And it’s somewhat cheaper to live in a lot of those places than in mid-town.
Either way, this person sounds like a rube.
Kevin said:Of course keep in mind that most of the time when someone says “New York City” they also mean Harlem, Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Queens as well as just Manhattan proper. And it’s somewhat cheaper to live in a lot of those places than in mid-town.
Either way, this person sounds like a rube.
That is exactly my point. Most of the people working in MANHATTAN live in places like Brookyn, the bronx, or even NJ. Get it?
Also, whats a rube?
brittany said:Kevin said:Of course keep in mind that most of the time when someone says “New York City” they also mean Harlem, Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Queens as well as just Manhattan proper. And it’s somewhat cheaper to live in a lot of those places than in mid-town.
Either way, this person sounds like a rube.
That is exactly my point. Most of the people working in MANHATTAN live in places like Brookyn, the bronx, or even NJ. Get it?
I don’t even think that’s necessarily true — again, based on my limited experiences with two separate offices in the Manhattan business district. The vast majority of those people lived in East Village or in nearby apartments.
rube/ro͞ob/Noun: A country bumpkin.
I’d have to agree. Your coffeeshop friend doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
I think I’m in one of the few places outside NYC with a significant cityfolk workforce, and that’s only because its TV and we’re one of a very few facilities not in the 5 boroughs, there’s a shuttle service run to the building, and it’s only 10 minutes over the bridge. Otherwise, hardly anyone owns cars, they couldn’t go far even if they wanted to.
brittany said:
That is exactly my point. Most of the people working in MANHATTAN live in places like Brookyn, the bronx, or even NJ. Get it?
Yeah….no. If someone works in midtown and lives in the Bronx or Brooklyn they still live and work in New York City. Period. Whether your bumpkin friend knows this or not is a completely different story. I don’t think his position is that nuanced or accurate. However, neither is saying that no one who lives in NY works in NY.
Yes there are a lot of commuters from NJ and CT, no doubt about it. But it is still not even close to accurate to say that no people who work in NYC live in NYC. It’s not even accurate to say “most” people who work in NYC don’t live in NYC.
Whoa, this conversation blossomed since I read it this morning.
I’ve lived in Manhattan for six years and have worked in the city for most of that. I now work in Newark, but that’s because that’s where the opportunity is and it makes the most logistical sense for me to stay in Manhattan (my GF is in school on Long Island). For what it’s worth, most of the people I know who live in the city work there.
I’ve never been to Atlanta, but have done a lot of Census work about it recently and can see why someone made the comparison.
Atlanta ain’t NYC, but its the only city comparable in the southeast. It’s growing rapidly, and, in fact, many of the people who have moved there in the last two decades have actually come from NYC and the surrounding metro area. It’s not New York City, but it is a major metropolitan area and is king among them in the region. It’s a broad generalization, completely, and of course when you dig any little bit below the surface it’s one that doesn’t hold much water. But so what? You can overthink anything that anyone says about anything that carries even the slightest bit of generality.
How the city responds to its booming growth will dictate, I think, if Atlanta’s services (i.e. MARTA) improve. A renaissance needs leadership to drive it more than just fresh bodies showing up at the door.
…again…I never said the people working in New York City don’t live in New York City. That doesn’t even make any sense. I said the people working in MANHATTAN do not live in MANHATTAN. It’s just a stereotype people say about MANHATTAN. I didn’t think you’d take it so literally. The saying goes something like “Anyone you meet and Manhattan doesn’t live in Manhattan.” It’s not “Anyone you meet in Manhattan doesn’t live in New York.”
Steve, I think if Atlanta grew some balls and dumped money into MARTA, the city would grow tremendously. Supposedly, the only reason the have is because racist people outside the perimeter protest because they don’t want black people in their white neighborhoods….awkward.
Brittany – Yeah definitely. Granted there’s going to be some growing pains when a city suddenly grows by leaps and bounds. But a good transit system is so key when it does. Of course, you don’t have to look past NYC to see what a money pit it can become, even if ours does work pretty well.
I’ve been really intrigued by the northern flight, particularly among African Americans, to Atlanta in recent years. It’ll be really interesting to see how the city evolves — especially if racism is still abundant down there.
Of course, the more city services you add, the higher taxes and the cost of living get, which is one of the draws to the city in the first place.
You know what Steve, that’s a really interesting point. If people come here because its cheap, then why turn it into another NYC or LA? And more importantly, does America really need another big metropolitan cluster of pollution?
Though I don’t think the public transit needs to be like NYC, but a lil money will get us a long way. Honestly, Hawaii had better transit…thats just sad.
Wow. I must be really tired today. You’re right. You did say Manhattan. Sorry about that. But I still think a sizable enough amount of people work in Manhattan and live there than not. Definitely enough for the statement that nobody who works in Manhattan lives there to be more than a little inaccurate. Manhattan itself, not even talking about the outer boroughs still includes Harlem, Soho, Greenwich Village, Chelsea, Wall Street, Hells Kitchen, Gramercy, Chinatown, Little Italy, Tribeca, the meat packing district, the lower east side and any number of areas where crap tons of people live. Manhattan is not just Times Square.
And also in my defense in the original post you fluctuate between describing the person saying they want to live in New York City and then you reference Manhattan in other parts. If the person was saying they want to live and work in Manhattan that’s one thing. But again, if they’re just saying New York City and they do have some knowledge of it, I don’t think it’s out of line for them to think they can pull it off.
Its just a saying. Atlanta cant be the new york of the south as there is no new york of the south because new york is in the north aint it. Jesus Louisesus. Its a saying from fucking 18somecuntarather. Atlanta is lovely. Once again, bit drunk.
further more, marta will always be shit, because atlanta has shit transit. And dont play the fucking race card it dont matter if your black our your white, its about the fucking green. I’m sorry if you northern folks dont understand about southern guilt, it aint exactly racism is it. Jesus Christ.
-Steve
Also, posting this under ‘south’ ‘stupid’ is a bit fucking much aint it britt. Bit fucking much indeed.
Also, posting this under ‘south’ ‘stupid’ is a bit fucking much aint it britt. Bit fucking much indeed. In addition, fuck transit buy a fucking car.
Atlanta is and fine and dandy city. No city is perfect so either grow to enjoy the city or move the fuck out of my god damn town.
Sorry for the doubles on that post. Bit Drunk.
….this fuckin’ guy.
Sorry John. Also congratulations on the new addition to your family. Further congratulations to your parents on become grandparents.
First.. Thanks for the congrats, Steve.
Second.. Kevin was wrong? :P
Third… Note the name of this thread “Frustrations with Atlanta”
Clearly Britt is frustrated… she had a car, Steve.. it was stolen when she lived in Washington, DC by punk kids.
I think all Britt’s saying is WTF Atlanta?.. who are you? Are you NYC or Amsterdamn? Are you racist? If so, why are so many northern black peeps moving there? Why is Buckhead so far from.. the city.. of Atlanta? Why is so much of Atlanta actually called Atlanta?. it’s so spread out.
Did you ever watch the laser show at Stone Mountain? We did, when we were there visiting Britt.
That about summed up Atlanta for me! Weird.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGBGx2qNAOY
the carving on the actual mountain is kinda hard to see, it’s; Confederate leaders of the Civil War, President Jefferson Davis and Generals Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. “Stonewall” Jackson. yep.
wendela said:I think all Britt’s saying is WTF Atlanta?.. who are you? Are you NYC or Amsterdamn? Are you racist? If so, why are so many northern black peeps moving there? Why is Buckhead so far from.. the city.. of Atlanta? Why is so much of Atlanta actually called Atlanta?. it’s so spread out.
Did you ever watch the laser show at Stone Mountain? We did, when we were there visiting Britt.
That about summed up Atlanta for me! Weird.
Hahaha!