Is there such a thing as "bad art?"
Been thinking about the nature of opinion and how we’re allowed to have some opinions, but others can be viewed as snobbish. This lead me to the question, is there such a thing as bad art? Why or why not?
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you should come hang out at my job one day, as this is the kind of stuff we end up talking about. however, it’s also a question i probably had to answer in essay-form at more than one point in my life of art classes, and i am too tired to debate it again via keyboard. i also have a new disc of Dexter to watch from the Netflix.
So skip the explanation. Is there or is there not? And, to follow up, can you believe there’s such a thing as bad art without being a snob?
yes and yes. i’m sure there is some devil’s advocate argument out there against my answer, but it’s bullshit.
No there is no such thing as bad art in this day and age. There may be art that doesn’t move individuals personally or culturally in a particular geographic or socioeconomic area, but that doesn’t make it “bad”.
The question MAY be able to be asked/answered by someone who is only into the classics (classical music, Rennaisance painting/sculpture/etc.) rather than impressions based on their own cultural bias, whimsy and overly subjective reasoning for certain opinions.
That person is not me. And it most certainly is not you.
Assuck, children’s drawings, U2, The Jeff Dunham Show, couches from the 70s; all examples of bad art.
Kevin said:No there is no such thing as bad art in this day and age. There may be art that doesn’t move individuals personally or culturally in a particular geographic or socioeconomic area, but that doesn’t make it “bad”.
and there is the bullshit argument i was looking for!
there is more such a thing as “bad” art this day & age than in any other. far more of a population of people has far greater access to tools to make “art” and do so without any sort of formal training. formal training is of course not the be-all-end-all of being an “artist” but it certainly helps to know how to see/read/hear/compose anything from visual to aural pieces
anyone out there can make a painting, shoot a photo or a film, make music, etc. which is FANTASTIC and SO AWESOME but while leading to some certainly groundbreaking things it also leads to some of the worst pieces of creative shit ever to be conceived.
this especially applies to performance art.
(please note i spent a lot of time & money on a lot of little pieces of official paper that say i know what i am talking about – raised seals & ink signatures and EVERYTHING)
Jay, that is the opposite of bad art.
So Kevin, assuming you don’t find art criticism a complete waste of time, seeing as you occasionally dabble in it, how to you reconcile, how to you reconcile the practice of critiquing and even rating art on a numbered scale with your belief that there is no such thing as bad art?
I mean, is there really an argument that can be made that says Metallica’s St. Anger isn’t bad art?
For the record, I’m still figuring out what my position is on the whole matter, so I’m not trying to corner anyone with any gotchas or anything. Just think it’s an interesting topic that I’m guessing a there are a pretty wide range of opinions on.
John said:Just think it’s an interesting topic that I’m guessing a there are a pretty wide range of opinions on.
that’s all there is on it. this is definitely one of the ultimate “opinions/assholes” topics. it reminds me of a quote from one of my fellow artfags in high school:
“what is art? is ‘art’ art? how do we know that art is art?”
for high school art theory, it was hilarious. and so is art.
Mandy: I agree about the glut and overabundance of “art” out there. Especially nowadays in terms of music. But that being said, then the only options then are to judge art on the purely technical basis of the formal training you are talking about(these notes are played in the right places at the right tempo…..are these pictures are realistic or difficult to reproduce, are these words written in the “right” order so as to make sense and be pleasing etc.) or open up the floodgates and let “the market” decide. If people are willing to watch/read/listen to it…then on some level it’s art. Maybe you can say that something is good art if only a majority of critical scholars in that particular area agree, but then that pretty much leaves probably 75-80% of the stuff out there as “bad art”.
And John, the long and short of it is that art criticism is basically just people discussing their opinions. And the fact that those opinions differ is what makes it interesting, fun, enjoyable, etc. for me.
It’s why I hate sports. There are 2 possible outcomes. That’s it. 1 team wins, 1 team loses. The only things that make sports interesting to me is the very small subjective aspects of it (geographic fandom, family fan history, colorful characters who break the rules, etc.). But art…there are as many different opinions and ranges of opinions and nuances of those opinions as there are people.
I say this as someone who probably enjoys, appreciates, and agrees with scholars and critics with regard to most of what is considered “good art” in the various disciplines. I just think that unless you’re talking technical, then saying that something that moves a large number of people (whether it does so to me or not) is “bad”. Yeah, in my subjective opinion there’s a shitload of stuff that I would call bad. But….that’s ultimately just my opinion and has no factual or technical basis.
Also, if anyone answers yes then they also have to state how good vs. bad art is determined and who does the determination. If they have an answer to that then I’m all for it.
To answer your other question, I know plenty of people who think St. Anger is good art. I’m not one of them but they are probably greater in number than those who think that….say Animal Collective or Grizzly Bear are good art. Even if less than half of the 2 million people who bought that album think that it is “good art”, that’s still probably the case.
John said:Jay, that is the opposite of bad art.
This is really good to know, what with that being my pièce de résistance and all.
Yeah, Jay, I love that drawing. I can’t believe you still have the scan.