Banned Bill is Hutch's nemesis.

No new Lost tonight... but let's talk about it anyway.

Let this thread be a substitute for the usual weekly Lost episode discussion that would begin this evening. I will start us off with a long-winded new theory I’ve written.

First of all, if you haven’t seen this DHARMA-related youtube video, watch it now for some background info:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-eHEYswgK8

This video explains that the numbers (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42) are the numerical values to the core environmental and human factors of the Valenzetti Equation. Hanso talks about the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative being to change the value of any one of the core factors in the equation in order to give humanity a chance at survival (because changing one of these numbers would change the result of the equation, which could put off the end of humanity).

In the last part of the video (which is supposed to be from 2006), Mittelwerk talks about how they’ve have failed to change the values through manipulating the environment at that point. So, as of 2006, the original numbers are still the numbers.

HOWEVER! I believe that some event has changed one of the numbers. As we’re all aware, Lost has a history of blatantly inserting the numbers all over the place in the show. Here’s what got me thinking…

I first noticed it when Ben dropped off Locke’s body at the butcher’s shop. He took a ticket at the counter and it was number 342. The 42 is obvious, but why 3? I immediately thought, “any other time that would’ve been ticket 423 or 816 – so what’s up with the 3?” Then a couple weeks later, they took flight 316 back to the island. Again, a 3 blatantly paired with one of the other numbers. Then I discovered that earlier in the season when Kate stopped for gas with Aaron in the car, the price of gas was $3.42. Once again, 3 showing up clearly juxtaposed with an intentional use of one of the other numbers.

So, when I had some free time (which is pretty much all the time I’m at work) I scoured the Lostpedia pages about each of the 6 numbers where they catalog the references to each number in every episode of the show. I looked specifically for occurrences of each number in scenes during the 2007/2008 portion of the show’s timeline (since the Mittelos video indicated that nothing had changed as of 2006). My goal was to find one of the original numbers no longer showing up in typcially blatant Lost number insertions.

42 checked out all over the place. It was the house number on Kate’s street address (on the note in the pocket of the man Sayid darted in the hospital), it was included in both 342 references mentioned above (butcher shop ticket, gas price), among other places.

23 was similarly present. Ben mentions meeting at slip 23 at the marina, Widmore wanted Locke to dial 23 on the phone he gave him upon his return, etc.

For 16 we need look no further than flight 316 back to the island. Hell, it was in an episode title!

8 and 15 are still showing up as well – flight 316 left from gate 15 and Jack & Ben sat in row 8 on the flight, 8:15 was listed as the time of death for the man Sayid killed at Santa Rosa, Sun was at gate 15 when arriving in LA, and so on.

This bring us to our old friend 4. There have been plenty of four references in seasons four and five, but the first thing I noticed was that the vast majority were in flashbacks and time jumps to scenes prior to 2007. And the few 4 references that occurred in 2007/2008 scenes were extremely weak and questionable references. For example, in previous seasons we’d see plenty of fours showing up clearly paired with other numbers (423 Cheyne Walk, 4:8:15 on Eko’s stick, 4:16 time of crash for 815). But it seems that all the #4 references listed on Lostpedia in the recent part of the timeline are likely not intentional references to the numbers – things like “4 people went to see Eloise Hawking” and “the swinging pendulum in Ms. Hawking’s lab passes the camera 4 times” and “When riding the elevator to meet Sun, Kate tells Aaron to push the button Three One. (3+1=4)”. These seem like Lostpedia editors stretching to find fours rather than conscious decisions by the writers to make reference to the numbers.

So what I’m obviously getting at here is that I think some event that took place in 2007 or 2008 has caused 4 to be replaced by 3. This raises two clear questions:
1) What was the event that caused it?
2) What are the implications of one of the numbers changing?

For possible answers to the first question, I can offer two possible guesses. My first guess is that Locke’s death somehow caused it. It certainly seemed to be a very important event. My second guess is that it was some action taken by Desmond (perhaps that we’ve not yet seen on the show). I say this only because Faraday has hinted that “the rules” don’t seem to apply to Desmond which indicates to me that Desmond may be the only one with the power to actually change or influence the course of time in a meaningful way.

Now for the second question – the implications of the numbers changing… Well, given what Alvar Hanso has told us, it would seem that perhaps the date of doomsday has now been altered. Aside from that, I really have no answers about this – just more questions. Has anyone realized yet that the numbers changed? Did Mrs. Hawking realize it, and if so why did the Losties still have to go back to the island?

Hopefully I can to stimulate some discussion here and maybe we can figure out what this means.

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Comments

On 03/11/09 at 01:29 PM, John is hungry was all:
John is hungry

WOW that’s a lot of reading. I will read it tonight at 10pm.

On 03/11/09 at 01:32 PM, Banned Bill is Hutch's nemesis. was all:
Banned Bill is Hutch's nemesis.

Yeah, I tried to get into evidence gathering to make my theory seem plausible instead of randomly insane. I had a lot of nothing to do at work today.

On 03/11/09 at 01:41 PM, Kevin V. was all:
Kevin V.

What the fuck is up with no new episode? Wasn’t the whole deal behind making everyone wait so long was that there wouldn’t be any breaks and the season would run straight through without losing the momentum?

On 03/11/09 at 01:48 PM, Jeff was all:
Jeff

Here’s what happened:

The island got stuck in a temporal causality loop causing them to relive the same events over and over. At the poker game, Data keeps dealing out the same cards over and over, and over the many iterations of the events, the other members of the crew begin to remember what they are. Diana can hear the future thoughts of the crew, and eventually they realize that Riker’s plan is the one that will save them, so they program Data with the number 3 to signify the command pips on Riker’s collar. Data subconsciously makes 3’s appear all over the place.

That’s why there are threes.

On 03/11/09 at 01:50 PM, John is hungry was all:
John is hungry

That is one of my favorite episodes.

On 03/11/09 at 01:51 PM, Jay Twattyshithouse was all:
Jay Twattyshithouse
Kevin said:

What the fuck is up with no new episode? Wasn’t the whole deal behind making everyone wait so long was that there wouldn’t be any breaks and the season would run straight through without losing the momentum?

I don’t think the show has been pissing people off enough this season. They had to do something about that.

Bill, this is all way over my Lost-head. I don’t pay nearly close enough attention to be able to add anything to your theory.

On 03/11/09 at 02:05 PM, mandy blue was all:
mandy blue
Jeff said:

Here’s what happened:

The island got stuck in a temporal causality loop causing them to relive the same events over and over. At the poker game, Data keeps dealing out the same cards over and over, and over the many iterations of the events, the other members of the crew begin to remember what they are. Diana can hear the future thoughts of the crew, and eventually they realize that Riker’s plan is the one that will save them, so they program Data with the number 3 to signify the command pips on Riker’s collar. Data subconsciously makes 3’s appear all over the place.

That’s why there are threes.

our coolest wedding present from anyone was still the towels from you, if only because of the reasoning behind them.

you are my favourite fellow geek.

On 03/11/09 at 02:08 PM, John is hungry was all:
John is hungry

What about the towels now? I’m curious.

On 03/11/09 at 02:26 PM, maggie is depressed about decaf :( was all:
maggie is depressed about decaf :(
Jeff said:

Here’s what happened:

The island got stuck in a temporal causality loop causing them to relive the same events over and over. At the poker game, Data keeps dealing out the same cards over and over, and over the many iterations of the events, the other members of the crew begin to remember what they are. Diana can hear the future thoughts of the crew, and eventually they realize that Riker’s plan is the one that will save them, so they program Data with the number 3 to signify the command pips on Riker’s collar. Data subconsciously makes 3’s appear all over the place.

That’s why there are threes.

ahahaha so good

bill laughed at the tar-thing that killed tasha yar the other night. HE DOESN’T UNDERSTAND.

On 03/11/09 at 02:27 PM, John is hungry was all:
John is hungry

I also laughed at the tar thing that killed tash yar. Because it’s stupid.

On 03/11/09 at 02:39 PM, Heidi was adopted by pirates was all:
Heidi was adopted by pirates

Wow….I no longer think I have the most amount of free time at work.

On 03/11/09 at 02:40 PM, maggie is depressed about decaf :( was all:
maggie is depressed about decaf :(

he’s been thinking about this for days and has brought it up to many lost watchers. most people just kind of glaze over. it mostly makes sense to me, but i don’t have anything to add.

On 03/11/09 at 03:03 PM, Paris On Rails was all:
Paris On Rails

I really like your idea, Bill. I wonder who is supposed to notice this. Seriously no one on the show has mentioned anything about the numbers appearing all around. I suppose not every person is aware of the numbers.

For all the things being revisited this season, the numbers just aren’t coming up. This alone gives me reason to believe this aspect of the show is the most important.

On 03/11/09 at 03:12 PM, maggie is depressed about decaf :( was all:
maggie is depressed about decaf :(

hurley would be the one to notice.

On 03/12/09 at 11:33 AM, Justin is made of ninjas was all:
Justin is made of ninjas

Good spot on the numbers. I’ve always been reluctant to give much thought to the Valenzetti Equation, since it’s never been mentioned on the show and therefore doesn’t seem like official canon yet. But there’s plenty of evidence that the numbers are really bad and ominous, so changing one of them would be a good thing. I’ve always assumed the numbers appearing in the background everywhere wasn’t very important or ever meant to be noticed by anyone living in the world of the show… just a William S. Burroughs/Alan Moore inspired attempt to use repetition to imbue symbols with meaning. Each use doesn’t have any specific meaning in itself, it’s just a reminder to us that the Island (or the universe, or whatever) is watching, course-correcting.

Stray questions in my brain:

• Why was Alpert so adamant about returning back to his camp with dead bodies (of either his partners or the lady’s husband)? Come to think of it, the Others have always had a thing with collecting the dead. Are they worried about preventing/ensuring that certain dead bodies reanimate or appear as visions?

• I’ve heard a zany crackpot theory that the baby born on the Island is Desmond, a special baby that’s soon shipped off to live with adoptive parents in Scotland by Widmore… a benefactor that takes on a Dickensian significance (and Desmond’s kinda obsessed on Dickens). Since he would never have been born without the assistance of a time-traveling Juliet, he could easily be someone that doesn’t have the rules apply to him. Seems really unlikely, since I peg Desmond as older than his early 30s.

• Speaking of which, what happened to Olivia? She was Horace Goodspeed’s companion in Portland when he pulled over and helped deliver Ben and they were supposedly husband and wife… but she’s nowhere to be seen when, 3 years after Sawyer and gang arrive, Horace’s and Amy’s son is delivered. Insane theories would propose that Sawyer killing those Others and saving Amy has changed the course of history, with dastardly results. I doubt it, but a fun weirdo theory.

• Why all the hand-wringing about the danger threatening those left behind? They seem okay to me. Were the Oceanic 6 lied to? And, if so, why?

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Wisdom

heads of state who ride and wrangle,
who look at your face from more than one angle,
can cut you from their bloated budgets
like sharpened knives through chicken mcnuggets.
shut the fuck up.

-CAKE

#1687

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