Ramones or Sex Pistols
Or do Iggy and the Stooges count as the true godfather? Which came first? Cite your sources. Or, just, y’know. Not. Sammy and I want to know and the internet hasn’t given us a satisfactory answer.
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I’m not sure why you can’t just search release dates on albums, but I’m going to go with Iggy. I’m pretty sure they were chronologically first, and they are by far the awesomest.
And the Sex Pistols were a bunch of losers when you think about it. Their contribution was the whole punk rock look, and that never looked good.
Even when I rocked it.
If you’re talking about traditional “punk” look and sound then it’s the Ramones. Even just limiting it to the Sex Pistols and The Ramones it’s still the Ramones because they were a band first and released and album first (1975) and the Sex Pistols (Bollocks came out in 1977) were influenced by them. Even the Sex Pistols style and look was completely bitten from Richard Hell who came before them by a few years. Shit, even technically speaking I think the Damned released a record before the Sex Pistols.
If you’re talking “punk” as attitude and confrontational power and all that then yeah you can make a case for Iggy and the Stooges who came before even the Ramones. Personally while I love them, their music was always a little more psychedelic and experimental than what I’d consider traditional punk. But by that same standard you could also claim that the MC5 and/or The Velvet Underground and/or The New York Dolls also can make a claim to the title.
On a semi related note, even if you don’t like the Ramones, that documentary on them called “End of the Century” is pretty fascinating stuff. The fact that they continued being a band for 20 some years, with the two main figures despising each other, and with one stealing the other’s girlfriend. Amazing. And I was surprised at how despite Johnny Ramone being a right wing asshole that he was the most sympathetic of the bunch, not because he was nicest but more because he just didn’t give a fuck and didn’t care about not giving a fuck.
I mentioned “End of the Century” to John during the conversation that sparked this thread. I enjoyed it.
I agree about Johnny being the lovable asshole, and sadly observed that I relate well to his ideas of “fuck you, I’m doing it for me.” Sometimes you just have to be honest about your selfishness.
the “godfathers of punk” role cannot be given to a band that was put together to make money borrowing from other influences, so no Sex Pistols (which as i have said before, was essentially a boy band).
i watched “End of the Century” a week or so ago and it was so good. i loved the comment that said that the Ramones never changed their look, so whenever you went to see them it was like being in a time capsule and you could no longer tell what year it was. their forever-haircuts killed me though.
i’d say Ramones (as much as i’d love to say The Clash).
Oh yeah, good call Mandy. Of the 3 bands the Clash is by far my favorite but both in terms of their timing and in terms of their overall eclectic style they just don’t rate in this discussion. But I listen to their music far more frequently, for many years later.
That’s it Sammy. Johnny was so brutally honest about his selfishness, and strangely enough he didn’t come across like a dick. He just seemed like he was being honest about something that most people go through the motions of lying about.
Kevin said:Oh yeah, good call Mandy. Of the 3 bands the Clash is by far my favorite but both in terms of their timing and in terms of their overall eclectic style they just don’t rate in this discussion. But I listen to their music far more frequently, for many years later.
have you read the Clash biography Passion is a Fashion? it’s really good and makes you love them all over again – drug addiction, egos and all. i tried to watch that Joe Strummer film “The Future is Unwritten” but i hated how it was edited and it just annoyed me too much.
I haven’t read the book, but should. I wanted to see that movie but had heard similarly unappealing things so I never bothered.
the stooges has never thought of themselves as punk and never were punk. they were one of the best bands on earth, but not punk. ramones started it all.
What personifies the Ramones to me is this: In the early 80’s when I started getting really into music, my dad who was a champ, took me to boatloads of metal concerts. Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Dio, Van Halen, Metallica. You name it, and his Johnny Mathis loving self was willing to take his son to see the bands he loved and put up with all the bullshit. And he would actually try and find stuff he liked about them.“That stage show was really impressive….the guitarist was good…..I enjoyed the drum solo.” Then in like 1984 or 5 when I started getting into punk, he took me to see the Ramones. On the car in the way home the only conversation we had was “So is that the kind of stuff you’re getting into now?” “Yeah, kinda.” “Hmmm….I’ll have to talk to your mom but after that I’m going to have to say you’re old enough to go to shows yourself since I don’t think I could ever sit through anything like that again.”
That’s an amazing story, Kev. Your dad’s pretty cool, and he just made me like the Ramones a little bit more, too.
My dad hated a lot of the stuff I listened and still listen to. Pretty much all metal, punk, and techno, anything noisy or with screaming, any rap beyond the old school jazzy stuff. So I had a lot of room for my rebellion and I think it’s probably got something to do with why I listen to so much music.
my dad got me into R.E.M., which was a huge turning point in my life. he was also very into Yes and Asia and those sorts of prog rock bands and he got me into them, too. in fact, those are some of the best shows i have been to and it’s fun to geek-out with my dad when they come around.
the Ramones are a perfect band to create any sort of artwork to. i can paint a hundred paintings with their albums on repeat. it might have something to do with all of the songs being pretty much the same and pretty much awesome.
I feel I should add that I still do think Never Mind The Bollocks is a phenomenal rock and roll record. It’s just that one good record, a co-opted fashion statement, and some contrived acts of shock value just don’t add up as some sort of long lasting cultural bellweather befitting the whole “godfathers” title. Just because they were the most famous doesn’t mean they were the innovators or pioneers, but it also doesn’t mean that they were a bad band.
kev, i agree. there are some fantastic songs on the album and as a whole, it’s relisten value is very high.